Feb 10, 2023

NGPF Podcast: Julian and Kiersten Saunders, Authors of Cashing Out

What do you use your income for? What do you think it looks like to be rich? Authors Julian and Kiersten Saunders share what they think the four purposes of income are and how not all rich people look rich.

This week Yanely is joined by Julien and Kiersten Saunders who wrote the book Cashing Out: Win the Wealth Game by Walking Away. Julien and Kiersten dig into key parts of their book, speak about the FIRE movement, and share the intersectional nature of personal finance.


  • 0:00~0:58 Introduction
  • 0:58~7:34 What is the FIRE movement?
  • 7:34~13:30 The structure of the book
  • 13:30~20:34 How personal finance education fits in 
  • 20:34~25:01 Offering a wake-up call
  • 25:01~28:10 The sandwich generation
  • 28:10~32:58 What it looks like to be rich
  • 32:58~39:06 Four purposes of income
  • 39:06~40:09 Conclusion



  • “We try to aim to the heart and not the head. And by doing that we make the message last a lot longer and lead to people taking advantage.” -Julian Saunders
  • “The idea that you could have strict, rigid financial rules of thumb that apply to everyone across all regions, ages, and races is an outdated idea.” -Kiersten Saunders

About the Authors

Tim Ranzetta

Tim's saving habits started at seven when a neighbor with a broken hip gave him a dog walking job. Her recovery, which took almost a year, resulted in Tim getting to know the bank tellers quite well (and accumulating a savings account balance of over $300!). His recent entrepreneurial adventures have included driving a shredding truck, analyzing executive compensation packages for Fortune 500 companies and helping families make better college financing decisions. After volunteering in 2010 to create and teach a personal finance program at Eastside College Prep in East Palo Alto, Tim saw firsthand the impact of an engaging and activity-based curriculum, which inspired him to start a new non-profit, Next Gen Personal Finance.

Ren Makino

Ren started interning at NGPF in 2014, and worked part-time through high school and college. With his knowledge growing alongside NGPF, he joined the team to work full-time after graduating from college in 2020. He is also the producer of the NGPF podcast. During his free time, he likes to try out coffees from different roasters across the world.

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