NGPF Podcast: Bolun Li of Zogo Finance on getting the incentives right to encourage financial literacy

Jun 06, 2020
Podcasts, Entrepreneurship



  • 0:00~0:55 Introduction
  • 0:55~1:41 What Bolun does for his day job
  • 1:41~2:20 On attending classes online
  • 2:20~3:36 Early money lessons
  • 3:36~4:07 Favorite personal finance book
  • 4:07~7:20 Cultural differences in approaches to personal finance
  • 7:20~8:51 Bolun’s first job
  • 8:51~10:29 Idea for Zogo
  • 10:29~11:44 Zogo’s business model
  • 11:44~12:02 A word from NGPF
  • 12:02~13:50 How the modules work and what they teach
  • 13:50~16:06 Levels of user engagement
  • 16:06~17:13 Impact Zogo has on its users
  • 17:13~20:47 On starting a business 
  • 20:47~22:23 What are “pineapples”?
  • 22:23~23:27 The future of Zogo
  • 23:27~24:41 Conclusion 



  • “It was a very simple idea. We wanted to incentivize people to learn finance so we added the gamification and reward inside the app. It’s just insane how much that little bit of incentive is motivating our users to complete modules every single day to learn about finance.” 


About the Authors

Tim Ranzetta

Tim's saving habits started at seven when a neighbor with a broken hip gave him a dog walking job. Her recovery, which took almost a year, resulted in Tim getting to know the bank tellers quite well (and accumulating a savings account balance of over $300!). His recent entrepreneurial adventures have included driving a shredding truck, analyzing executive compensation packages for Fortune 500 companies and helping families make better college financing decisions. After volunteering in 2010 to create and teach a personal finance program at Eastside College Prep in East Palo Alto, Tim saw firsthand the impact of an engaging and activity-based curriculum, which inspired him to start a new non-profit, Next Gen Personal Finance.

Ren Makino

Ren has been working part-time at NGPF since 2014, interning through high school and college. With his knowledge growing alongside NGPF, after graduating from college in 2020, he joined the team to work full time with a focus on teacher onboarding. He is also the editor of the NGPF podcast and makes sure it is accessible to teachers on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play Music. During his free time, he likes to try out coffees from different roasters across the world and try out new brewing methods, even though personal finance gurus tend to caution against buying a cup of joe.